...the Jehovah's Witnesses are back. I had purposed to tell them not to come again, and actually tried to do so. They wanted to know why, and why I disagreed with them. We batted back and forth on a few issues such as the deity of Christ and eternal life/death. I was pretty much fed up, and was ready to just show them the door, when we hit on the subject of the foreknowledge of God. I didn't know that they do not believe that God knows the events of the future as well as the past, except in such 'selective' times as the coming of the Messiah, etc.
So, being the sucker that I am for debate, I went back on my resolve, and told them they may come back one more time...to further discuss this thing of foreknowledge. I have spent time in the Bible this afternoon, and am only more convinced in my belief that God knows everything about my life and the lives of others, as well as having control and knowledge of the world at large- in advance. This should be interesting.
And after that- ugh. They will have to go, and not bother me anymore. As a busy mom, and aspiring to walk closer to God, I have better things to do than spend hours debating with people who will not convince me nor be convinced by me. These 'witnesses' feel that "angels were sending them" to me, (hmmmm...admittance of divine foreknowledge, right there!) whereas, privately, I feel they were sent to my door so that I may be solidified in what I believe. That's definitely what's happening!
If you have any advice to offer, any references that may help, please comment. You'll probably come up with the same Scriptures I thought of and referenced, but I welcome any new ground I may not have uncovered...
Comments (2)
A passage that open theists in general like to use is when God told Hezekiah he would die shortly, and then Hezekiah prayed and begged God to change his mind, so God said, "Alright, you won't die immediately, but I will give you 15 more years." Open theists use this to show that God didn't know with certainty that Hezekiah would die right away, because it was still possible for that to be changed.
But you have to ask the open theist, "But then how does God know it will be fifteen years, and not twenty?"
Of course, good open theists have an answer for that, but at least you can make them think a little.
I had a couple of JWs coming by my house once a week for about a year before I left for college. It actually turned into a fairly friendly relationship, and the elder began bringing a lot of his first-timers with him, because I was great practice. He knew he wouldn't convert me and that I could reasonably discuss why we disagreed, but that I would never refuse to listen or insult their views. We parted on good terms, and he told me that for the first time in his life, the trinity made sense to him, even if he didn't see it explained fully in scripture. Still pray for him, wherever he is.
We never got into divine foreknowledge, though. At least we could have agreed on one thing.
But if you're busy and their attempts to convert you aren't benefiting anyone, then it definitely makes sense to cut them off.
I hope you let us know how the chat goes.
@SirNickDon - They never returned. :) I think I asked too many questions they weren't sure how to answer... for instance, they also tried to tell me that people do not have a a living soul... everything about a human dies at death, and we are literally "brought back to life" in a newer, complete form in the "New Kingdom" here on earth, and the 144,000 are ushered into heaven immediately, while the rest of us get another chance, etc. etc. That would mean, as they told me when I inquired, that all the prophets such as Abraham, etc are literally "dead" with no living soul anywhere, and will only be revived in the "New Kingdom". The references to Abraham and other prophets (Lazurus, the Mount of Transfiguration) were dismissed as "metaphorical". I didn't think of it at the time, but I was prepared to challenge them about Enoch and Elijah on the next visit, since they were taken into the presence of God with no physical death. I'm guessing they would have called those metaphors as well... and they didn't appreciate it when I told them I can't accept the explanation that whatever satisfies their beliefs is literal, and whatever contradicts their beliefs is simply labeled "metaphorical". Anyway... I think I took too much of their time, and it has been nearly two months now. :)